Slaying the Goliath

You all claim that Christianity is under attack in the public schools simply because of an attempted removal in a secular institution- primarily because it does not belong there. There is a seperation of Church and State as given in our decleration and constitution, and simply because you see the world from your own Jesus glasses does not mean that you have the right to infringe on the removal of what has no place in the school system.

The other religious icons in the school are displayed in the social studies classroom- where they do belong. Religious education is important, and is not limited simply to the monotheistic fascist tendencies the Christian Right so voluminously employ. Contrary to what you believe, children are educated about Christianity, too- but you never hear anyone complain about that because that's okay.

Oh, and one last thing- the Grim Reaper is a Christian belief. Azrael, the angel of death, is a Christian concept that became what today is seen as the Grim Reaper.

nice try james, but my jesus glasses show me the constitution to read, "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof..." The terms "separation of church and state" are the liberals best made effort to establish a STATE. -a state that will only tolerate it's own list of laws, and it will silence all voices who disagree, namely christians.
What you need to realize is that fascist tendencies do not belong to any unique segment of society: they belong to every human regardless of belief. And at this point in time, the Christians in America are much further from establishing some corrupted form of totalitarian government than are the secularists of this age with their empirical commandments. (What true conservatives do you see who want government grown larger? It is exactly the opposite! Christians want less government, more liberty.) It is the liberal movements in this country who make many more laws limiting freedoms and liberty. Scientists and sociologists are the new clerics and priests... and they will impose their taxes and laws and they will grow government to one big global society where anyone who has a differing opinion will be isolated. I already have seen the ideas written of deeming all those who believe in a higher being as mentally ill, and the proposals of removing them from society. Every human has a belief system and a value system, it is not WHETHER religion should guide us, it is WHICH religion should guide us. You tend to believe that a God-LESS religion will provide us a better society. Obviously, there is a great divide, a war of the mind. I respect your comments and your free speech. This is my free speech, and i am enjoying it while i have it. It came from the Christian world view, and it will be taken by the liberal world view.

James, first of all you need to read both the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Neither one of them mention a "separation of church and state." That is a myth treated as fact by Leftists like you. The term "separation of church and state" actually come from the personal correspondence of Thomas Jefferson.

The Declaration of Independence is a wholly religious document that derives all of its meaning from the fact that we have self evident rights derived from our Creator.

The Constitution inherits the beliefs of the Declaration and talks of "blessings of liberty." Blessing surely can come from no place other than a Creator. As the first person to reply to you said, the First Amendment says"congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Preventing a student from drawing a picture of a cross in Art class is clearly preventing that students free exercise rights. Allowing the student, which is not a part of the "secular institution," as you say, would not be an establishment of religion; moreover the remarked made by that teacher are clearly an outright attack. Perhaps when you read the Constitution and the Declaration you should read this article as well.

The other religious icons were not mentioned to advocate their removal, just to show the utter hypocrisy.

Oh, and one last thing. The Grim Reaper, also know as Death, did not originate in the Christian religion. It is a figure that appears in most major religions, including Hindu, Paganism, and Islam as well as Christianity and Judaism. Again, this shows the hypocrisy of giving the student a zero for a simple drawing.

I would like to point out, just for the sake of argument, that everyone except james is already biased in favor of Christianity. No matter how you slant it, you people are not campaigning for freedom of religion. You are campaigning to allow Christianity in schools. If an Islamic, Buddhist, Shinto, or Jainist symbol was taken down you wouldn't budge.

The term "Jesus Glasses" is quite accurate in describing scientific thought. For the first thirteen years of my life I was pounded with Christian dogma. This prohibited me from forming my own opinions. I could not see the world clearly, because my own thoughts were tainted by some thousand year old book. When my eyes were finally opened and told to find their own way, I took a new look at EVERYTHING. Including the Constitution. It may not specifically state that schools are intended to be completely free of religion, but church and state are intended to be seperate.

According to the article, the student was not allowed to display the cross, yet other religious symbols were displayed in the social studies classroom. James is exactly right about this. Religion should only be in a public school setting in a history classroom. If you want to display your Christian symbol, go to a private school.

As for the so-called "Satanic" symbols, have they been confirmed as Satanic? Many popular metal bands use symbols that look "Satanic". The band Slipknot uses a 9-pointed star that is confused by many to be a symbol of Satanism. It is simply because there are nine members of the band.

As a last statement I would like all those who talk of "hypocrisy" to LOOK IN A MIRROR. All religions and institutions are hypocritical. Get over it. Deal with it. Don't be such a baby that you can't take what you dish out.

The first thing I would like to comment on is the surprisingly liberal use of words like fascist and hypocrite coming from such conservatists. For example, the anonymous writer above stated that "at this point in time, the Christians in America are much further from establishing some corrupted form of totalitarian government than are the secularists of this age with their empirical commandments." Empirical commandments, HA! You seem to think that christians just want a perfect little word where everyone gets along and there is no more fighting. WAKE UP! Christians want one thing, and one thing only, to make everyone else christian. the same person stated that "Scientists and sociologists are the new clerics and priests... and they will impose their taxes and laws and they will grow government to one big global society where anyone who has a differing opinion will be isolated." Where to even begin. first of all, the idea of silencing opposing viewpoints is an important aspect of christianity. I know I will get crap for this, so before you retort with something thats already been heard, think about it. How many wars have been fought in the name of god? How many people have died at the hands of christians? But I am going to bet all of them were in self defense.(sarcasm intended) No, they were killed to silence opinions that threatened christian beliefs. So before you go around brandishing words like hypocrisy, think about yourself and the bloody history of your 'religion'.

Another thing I have a problem with is the idea that scientists are attempting to block opposing ideas. First of all, the whole point of science is to be open to new ideas. We would still believe in a small, flat, static, geocentric universe had it not been for a few people who had the brains and the courage to stand up to the christian dictators and change things. The sad thing is that anyone who speaks out is 'silenced' to make an example for others. to parallel to something a little more clear, it is no different than the current situation between china and tibet.

And dont think for a moment that this just applies to christianity, it applies to every 'religion', whether it be mono- or polytheistic. The sole purpose of any religion is to take your money, your time, and your thoughts. Anyone who tries to tell you different either wants the same thing or is to stupid to see the truth. and the idea that one religion or another must guide a person only serves to show how weak that persons will is. I relly on no religion, no philosophy, and before anyone asks, I do not hold christian morals either.

But I digress, Justin(we share the same name, but that is about it) said that "Preventing a student from drawing a picture of a cross in Art class is clearly preventing that students free exercise rights" and that "moreover the remarked made by that teacher are clearly an outright attack". Looking through the sloppy grammar, no, I can not clearly see this. I can clearly see how you would feel this way, with your biased view on the topic.(and I never denied my own bias. We are all biased to a degree, it is how well we can work around it that matters) There is an old coloquialism that says something like 'your right to swing your fist stops at another mans chin'. the same thing applies here. you wouldnt like it if I went around brandishing anti-christian art. just look at the golden compass, countless 'free speach' christian activists protested the golden compass, because it was trying to 'corrupt our youth'. NO! They protested it because it corrupted THEIR YOUTH! It went against the prevailing christian mindset and these hypocrites tried to silence it. wow, what a surprise! If you want to worship your 'god' that is fine with me, but dont bring it into my school!(and yes, I am a junior in high school so I have as much say as anyone on this) What rituals you perform behind closed doors is up to you and yours, but when you take it out on the streets and into the schools, you have over stepped your bounds and must now give the same rights to everyone else, including the freedom of speach that you so often whine about having kept from you. the belief that christians are singled out by everyone else is, quite frankly, bulls***, and it makes me sick! You are given more rights than anyone else, be it on the streets or in the court system, so get over yourself and drop the 'poor me' act!

I probably wont check back here very often, so if you have any name-calling you need to get off your chest feel free to email me at justin_shorb@hotmail.com. I will gladly challenge any god, godess, or prophet you throw at me.